A researcher whose work informs the government on sex education in schools told RTÉ viewers this week that school children should not be taught to avoid porn, because porn could be a force for good which for most people did “no harm”.
Kate Dawson, previously a researcher in NUIG and now lecturer at University of Greenwich, appeared on one of RTÉ’s usually imbalanced panels alongside Fine Gael TD Josepha Madigan, Aontú leader Peadar Tóibín, and columnist Alison O’Connor, on Monday’s Upfront programme.
She expressed the view that school kids as young as 13 should be taught about pornography in schools, and the message should not be, she says, that porn is a bad thing, because it is actually an important tool which did the majority “no harm”.
Dawson’s views are already well known to parents’ groups who are increasingly concerned that those with the oddest, most radical, and frankly lunatic notions seem to have the ear of government and of the NCCA – the body that sets the school curriculum for our children.
She was supported by two teachers in the audience, who seemed to have been brought on the programme to shock middle Ireland by repeating scuzzy stuff that had been said to them by teenagers who had viewed porn and been left with a pretty distorted outlook on sexual relationships.
But neither teacher wanted to ‘stigmatise or shame pupils for their porn use’. And they insisted that they wouldn’t tell students not to use porn (an attitude which I think would bring them into collision with a great many parents) but instead said schools should teach them to “critically evaluate” porn.
Their argument in support of making this part of the curriculum was that young people, mostly describing casual sexual encounters, said that boys, in particular, seemed to think aggressive sexual behaviour like choking – often seen in pornography – was normal.
But Dawson then upped the ante (or spilled the beans) arguing that consensual aggression such as “rough sex” was fine in porn, and should not be conflated with “illegal behaviour”. She also said that porn helped to reassure people that “their sexual interests were normal”.
So we are expecting teenage boys to understand a very nebulous difference between different kinds of choking or strangulation or violence in pornography, having told them that there’s nothing wrong with watching it? Why don’t we hand them vape kits while we are at it and tell them its a better way of smoking.
One of the teachers said boys, having watched porn, would be asked where did they see respect or mutual consent. The notion that the porn industry, with its appalling exploitation and misuse of women, is a vehicle for understanding respect or consent is patently absurd.
No-one wants to acknowledge this, but when popular culture is telling young people – and people of all ages – that hook ups are the norm then there’s already a lack of respect in the culture that no amount of consent classes can overcome.
So we have young women understandably upset that they are expected to tolerate rough or violent sexual behaviour, yet the same culture that says it believes this is a problem celebrated the trite BDSM of Fifty Shades of Grey.
It was also said on Upfront that young people want to learn to “good sexual partners” – another expectation piled on top of young women, in particular, at a time when they are, according to research, already dealing not just with the pressures of school with record levels of anxiety, depression and sexual violence.
The message of the Upfront programme was equally confused. If Dawson is right, and pornography is mostly good, then what’s the problem? Why are we having the conversation at all? Why do our children need to have teachers advise them of preferred porn use?
Arguing for ‘porn literacy to be taught in the classroom, Cleary said that parents were currently “handing their sexual development into the porn industry”. But he wants parents to hand their sexual development into the hands of people who, to me, seem to have an outsized interest in directing your kids’ values.
The concept of moral guidance or holding anyone to a moral standard wasn’t part of the discussion: instead we get some simpering waffle about not ‘judging’ kids and it not being an adult’s place to tell teenagers what do to.
This is, of course, a huge pretence. We tell teenagers what to do all the time, on everything from homework to smoking to cleaning their rooms. We only get instructed to adopt this pathetic attitude when it comes to sexual matters.
That’s the nub of the matter. Apart from body parts and biological facts, what kids learn in RSE is driven by a set of values, and its obvious that Dawson and many others influencing the government on sex-education have very different values from many Irish parents, not just on porn but on other important issues such as gender ideology – where the NCCA is advising that your kids be taught that gender is a ‘spectrum’.
It is important to note that we are not talking about some fringe group with extreme views. Dawson’s work with porn in schools in the west of Ireland was funded by the HSE’s WISER programme.
She believes students should watch porn videos so they understand these films are scripted and to “reduce the shame” around watching.
She previously tweeted, about a “Porn Literacy” workshop spelled out words such as “gang-bang”, “bondage”, “fisting”, “anal ass-eating” and MILF in relation to a proposed sex-education bill.
She also told the This Morning programme in the UK that she believes 8 year olds should be taught about self-pleasure.
It was interesting that most of the unsolicited texts to the RTÉ programme from parents strongly disagreed with what was being argued, with one saying that children were being sexualised too young.
Peadar Tóibín pointed out that 88% of porn showed some level of violence, usually towards women, and that there was undeniable evidence that violent pornography was linked to violent sexual behaviour.
He was repeatedly interrupted by RTÉ’s Katie Hannon when he made those arguments, even when he added that the number of reported rapes and sexual assaults has doubled in the past ten years. Most disturbingly, he pointed out that sexual assaults by children on other children had also risen sharply.
In general, the patronising attitude from the panel – Peadar Tóibín aside – and some teachers in the audience was something to behold. Parents, we are led to believe, are basically too embarrassed, too dumb, too illiterate, to talk to their children about sex.
This has been a prevalent disparaging – and untrue – trope since I was in my teens: the typical Irish Mammy and Daddy, silly, backward and uneducated, and unable to have important conversations with their kids.
Thank God for the smart porn researchers who can step in to tell us what to do – while also ridding our children of the values which we think should shape their lives.
One parent who did get to speak in the audience made the most important point – that parents are the primary educators of their children, and Norma Foley seems to now be at odds with the NCCA’s hints that parents might be refused the right to remove their children from RSE classes.
But the reality is that there may be little point taking children out of RSE classes when their peers are being told that porn is fine, because they will still be part of the toxic environment in the school.
That’s now a major a consideration for parents, who are saying in increasing numbers that sex-education is headed in a direction that is harmful and dangerous.
The NCCA received thousands of submissions from parents opposing gender ideology and porn lessons in schools, yet parents say they felt largely ignored by the curriculum body.
As journalist Éilis O’Hanlon observed this week, parental concerns were dismissed as “petition style” by the NCCA – who have refused to answer questions from Gript seeking information on both the breakdown of submissions to the consultation process, and the identity of the experts the curriculum authority relied on.
Norma Foley says she welcomes parental consent yet when parents complained about the sphe curriculum their concerns were dismissed by NCCA as "petition style". Hardly encouraging. @NormaFoleyTD1https://t.co/DuLmqP393l
— Eilis O'Hanlon (@OHanlonEilis) February 22, 2023
If Norma Foley persists in the same attitude she may find that she has bitten off more than she can chew. RTÉ is not staging the debate in the real world, and parents are not about to roll over where their children are concerned.
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