I was taken by this video, published on social media on Bank Holiday Monday last. I should stress that the contents of the video are not endorsed, or confirmed, by Gript Media, and that I am publishing the video only so that people might know what exactly the rest of this article is talking about.
The apparent subject of the campaigner’s ire in this instance is that the owner of the Café, who is not present, is also involved financially – he alleges – in the provision of direct provision centres in Ireland. I will pause at this point to say that this is a legitimate subject for political discussion, and investigation: My colleague, Matt Treacy, has done trojan work in an area few other journalists have ventured into, in listing and documenting those individuals and companies who are – legitimately and legally, it must be said – doing very well out of the Government’s migrant accommodation policy.
Yet that individual, whatever you think about his alleged business interests, is not present in the video above. Who is present, from what we can see in the video, is a young male employee and two elderly customers, both of whom are subjected to an uninvited and unwanted tirade about how a man – who, it’s at least fairly likely, none of them may ever have even met – is allegedly ruining the country.
To state things plainly: Normal, ordinary, reasonable people, who make up the majority of both the population and the voting electorate, rightly see this sort of conduct as bizarre, unhinged, unwelcome, and a sign of deep unpleasantness. Those are not emotions one would normally wish to have associated with your cause.
For a subset of activists, however, they seem to be becoming increasingly central to the brand. And the brand, I might add, seems to be becoming increasingly divorced from the particulars of the cause. In the social media era, “maker of loud noise” appears to be a brand all by itself.
There are defences for this sort of thing, of course, and in this job, I hear them all the time. The most common one is not to defend the conduct in question, but to engage in whataboutery: The standard line is that this kind of thing, while not ideal, is nothing compared to X and Y politician who are actively “ruining the country”, and that it’s somehow a betrayal for someone in my position to “turn on my own side”. Finally, there’s the idea that it’s somehow someone else’s job in our culture wars to criticise this sort of thing – the “you sound like Paul Murphy” defence – and that it’s the job of people like me to defend a true patriot, rather than to condemn one.
First, of course, that is not a defence, but a justification: The argument is effectively that shouting and roaring at third parties is fine if you are angry enough to do so, a social convention that, were it widely adopted, would make society an unpleasant place. The social conventions and values of the drunks that terrorise O’Connell Street do not need to be exported to the rest of Ireland.
Second, it is nonsense: Anyone who cares about a “cause” should be wary of those whose conduct actively discredits that cause. In this case, as a writer who broadly believes that immigration levels are too high, and provoking social unrest and economic problems in society, and tries to persuade others through my work that this is the case, this is the kind of incident that portrays all of us who take that view in a particular light.
The other defences that tend to be made are the “desperation defence” and the “deplorables defence”.
The “desperation defence” posits that this kind of thing only happens because people are desperate and not being heard. That defence is somewhat weakened by the fact that in this case, the shouter and roarer is an election candidate in a free election coming up in just nine weeks, and that he has every opportunity to make his case to the voters. Indeed, he may well, for all I know, get elected, though I’d imagine his shot at a high preference from the elderly couple in the Café may have decreased.
The “deplorables” defence is the most insidious, and tries to cast the critic as a kind of class snob, who would have less of a problem with people making their views known if those views were articulated in a pithy letter to the editor of the Irish Times which combined that infamously tiresome Irish middle class wit with sophisticated socratic argument, as opposed to being articulated in the accent of a working class Dub in plain man language. In other words, that defence goes: You’re a middle-class snob, McGuirk.
The problem with that is that there are few other writers who’ve been as consistent in condemning middle-class snobbery towards working class concerns than yours truly, in the first place. And in the second place, the idea that working class people don’t know how to behave in a Café is the very epitome of snobbery in itself. What is the young man behind the counter, by the way, if not a young man working to earn his keep?
Finally, there’s the rampant hypocrisy of it: Were this the behaviour of a far-left activist, going into a Café owned by some known immigration restrictionist, to shout and roar at the staff and customers, nobody would have any hesitation, at least on this broad side of the political fence, in calling it out for the thuggery and intimidation it is.
We live in a western civilisation. Many of those who call themselves Irish Patriots claim – fairly or unfairly – to be defending western civilisation, and our way of life. Acting like civilised people ourselves might be a good start.
John, the thing is, there is a lot of anger out there.
This anger stems from the fact that for years the mainstream media ignored people’s concerns around government policies on migration and other issues (and still does)
This results in people bottling the anger up inside and eventually it spills over.
I’m not saying the man was right to do this but I can understand the frustration that causes people to behave in this way.
It may be the case that this is an example of frustrations boiling over, but that can be applied to any extreme element who decides to take an action because they believe they aren’t being listened to, or the cause justifies the action. It’s dangerous, and typically the people acting like this aren’t the sharpest tools, making it even more dangerous. Arson, anyone?
It’s no harm the extreme on right being called out by those of us who make up the majority of the right – the centre-right. We have our own nutters, no different to those on the left. The number of examples we have are stacking up, and some of the people involved are seeing their influence grow, hell, I see one of them is even running in upcoming elections. Can’t make allowances for these people, on the left or right, doesn’t matter.
I have to be honest . if it was the owner himself being confronted , i would be ok with that.
There are greedy people out there who are making millions from this industry of direct provision.
These wealthy business people know that the local community in which they operate dont want the centres but they push ahead like a steam roller all to make money
“It’s dangerous, and typically the people acting like this aren’t the sharpest tools, making it even more dangerous. Arson, anyone?”
You then go onto say it’s no harm to call out the extreme on the right. Do you reckon this fella in the video knows his Garibaldi’s from his Mussolini’s? Which is it? He’s not the brightest or he’s well read Falangist?
It’s not left or right. It’s ordinary people seeing what’s happening right in their own communities and fighting back against it. May not be the way you think they should fight but it may be the only way they think they can.
The nutters are the ones in suits in Government, the scum are the Gombeens in suits making money hand over fist out of this plantation while Irish people can’t hope to get a home for themselves and start a family.
“Can’t make allowances for these people”. Nobody cares what you think.
The 100k signature petition against the Migration Pact only exists because of actions and people like the fella in this video. It’s not because of the likes of the people commenting under Gript articles
If we leave aside that the shouter was later (unfairly?) arrested by a 1-2 of the Gardai and the local PBP and Sinn Fein heads, there is a more fundamental issue here that goes to burning down buildings and such like. There are a number of people facing courts over fires in Galway and Ringsend and, as Varadkar intimated, should they be convicted, they are facing very long jail sentences along the lines the now forgotten Strokestown lot got. When I brought that to the attention of Northside protesters who think screaming in the face of an RTE reporter and threatening him to beat him up is the way to go, they told me where to go.
There is a major problem here with immigration, much of which is good and more of which is not. As the middle and political class have provided zero leadership on this, others, in Sallynoggin, Ringsend, Galway and elsewhere are filling the void with motives good and bad.
Until the middle classes show some leadership, “mere anarchy is loosed upon the world”. Do I approve of protesters shouting in cafes? No. But I also don’t approve of the corruption which is the hallmark of this state and which some are protesting, however imperfectly, against. In this case, the two are umbilically linked
Good post.
>… they told me where to go.
Good for them (albeit I don’t know exactly what was said) — personally, I cannot think of a class of people who more deserve to be ‘beaten up’ than those who work for mainstream media outlets and demonize decent Irish people concerned about the future of their country by calling them ‘racist’, ‘far-right’, etc — I noted before how the media tries to turn immigration into a moral issue, whereas for normal people it is a matter of quality of life, now and in the future, and rational self-interest — people are justifiably angry at the media for their moralizing tone — I don’t think the people promoting the demographic destruction of Ireland will take more note when those opposed to it behave with decorum — they despise the hoi polloi regardless — you’ll realize this sooner or later.
>There is a major problem here with immigration, much of which is good and more of which is not.
I’m not sure I understand this sentence — saying ‘much of which is good’ reminds me of the frog in boiling water scenario, i.e. it’s ‘good’ until the day in the future when the Irish are a minority in Ireland, when you realize it wasn’t so ‘good’ after all — which will come of course; no question, that day will come — let’s see if we can perhaps agree on something: Nigerians (to pick just one example) do not belong to the ‘much of which is good’ part of immigration.
The world is wide
Ireland is tiny
I agree with your comment regarding Nigerians. I was shocked to see that the number of Nigerians far exceed all other countries applying for ‘protection’. They, after all, are from a ‘safe’ country. Nigeria is listed as safe by most other EU countries. That’s why they are all coming here. I saw an item on YouTube the other night where hundreds of Nigerians are travelling to Belfast from London and bussing down to Dublin to claim Asylum because Britain doesn’t class Nigeria as a ‘War-Torn’ country! Dublin will need to be re- named New Lagos in about 10 years if FF & FG ( or Shinners) keep getting into power which will enable the scams to continue unabated. Wake up people. Vote for anti- immigration parties or like-minded independents.
>… the number of Nigerians far exceed all other countries applying for ‘protection’.
Obviously it’s a scam — Nigerians are dumb, which is why Nigeria is a mess, but they aren’t that dumb — not too dumb take advantage of the Camp of the Saints-like cowardice and weakness of Europeans — maybe I should mention Oswald Spengler in this context too.
Very good
How about the ‘much of which is good’ part? — do you find that ‘very good’ too?
RTE are different to this cafe work person or owner. Their crimes are on a whole other level. The mainstream media are the number one problem this country faces, bar none. They legitimise everything.
The dangers of social media echo chambers…
Unfortunately, a lot of dissident right political figures keep forgetting that we need to appeal to the wider electorate in order to gain support, resources, etc.
The country could be aflame from Kerry to Donegal, and the public will not get behind a political movement that engages in unsavory behavior. Right or wrong is beside the point. It’s basic realpolitik.
Couldn’t agree more Robert. I’m sure the protestors objective was to raise awareness & inform the community of the business owners traitorous participation in the lucrative “integration” trade to line their own pockets while bleeding the taxpayer dry to do so & selling out the country.
However , you cannot inform people while shouting at them. If they wanted to protest & raise awareness , the protest should have been done calmly outside the cafe with the objective clearly been to inform not abuse.
Basic realpolitik is right – look at how Sinn Fein push female candidates to the fore all over the country in a clear attempt to “soften” their image & distance themselves from their past links.
Perception & optics are everything.
“you cannot inform people while shouting at them ” (Ian Paisley has entered the chat….)
You can, actually. Generally, it must be done in very small doses to be effective while accompanied with a gentler more detailed message. Not all will respond positively to it.
Firebrands are not new. It may upset YOUR and John’s sensitivies, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. Same as ‘Sex sells’. Not my cup of tea, I don’t approve of it. But to deny it’s effectiveness is to stick your head in the sand.
There was a video clip a few years ago of a community meeting in one of the Eastern European countries, can’t remember which one, possibly Romania. They were being told that their community was going to get an influx of foreigners planted in one go. There was some very aggressive shouting from some of the crowd and the organisers were told in no uncertain terms that if those people were brought in and settled there would be violent consequences. The plan to import the foreigners was cancelled.
You and John may say ‘ this is undemocratic blahblablah’. And you’d be right. So is importing foreigners and planting them in our country without a mandate. No-one has asked for this plantation.
The approach this guy has taken in his protest isn’t something I’d do or necessarily advocate. He didn’t kill anyone. Neither did those who rioted in Dublin when the young school girls were stabbed. A strongly worded letter to his TD wouldn’t likely cut it, in my opinion.
I don’t think the people in the café were the ones he was trying to reach (and I doubt he deliberately went in knowing the person on the till was a teenager, and seized his opportunity to have a go at him). There was only a small handful of people there. The aim was the video, and the audience that it would reach, that would then set up the following protest which took place outside.
It may not be every bodies cup of tea, but, for so long people have been complaining about the softly-softly approach, which is not every bodies cup of tea either.
For so long, these demonstrations have been brushed off, and ignored, that the ‘taking it to them’ attitude has been rightly (I believe) accepted as the way forward.
But, that’s just me. I believe in going down to ‘their’ level. Because I believe we can beat ‘them’ there.
It has worked so far.
The “other side” & the media certainly don’t play fair. Peter kelliher has a good post on it further down the thread.
It’s a sad sad day for the country & our so called republic isn’t it when the government by ignoring people & behaving in the most anti democratic fashion imaginable & selling us out to the even more anti democratic EU autocrats have driven people to this.
I just don’t think shouting at an innocent cafe employee is the way to go to bring the moderate majority in the country together on this.
But then we’re living in very serious times with our democracy & our freedoms at stake so who knows.
The two short videos of the protest outside, and the arrest, have over 100,000 views (combined) on one YouTube channel alone.
If it wasn’t for the likes of Philip Dwyer, Derek Blighe, and Stephen Kerr etc, getting in the faces of people, we wouldn’t be where we are now. Nationalism wouldn’t have the support it does.
It has worked so far. The fella on the till was probably oblivious to what his boss is up to, but, he is not the point. A lot of energy is being wasted on the ‘poor fella’.
Scumbag behaviour. Plane and simple. Pathetic. Feel bad for the young staff to put up with that shite. All this clown has is a phone and a mouth.
It definitely is scumbag behaviour to be participating in and profiting off the present day Plantation of Ireland.
Agreed, but not acceptable to attack a young lad in the shop. Could probably be his first job. Doesn’t deserve this nonsense. Brave man with his phone. Probably convinced in his own head he is a modern day Wolfe Tone or Michael Collins 😉
What did he attack him with, a machete?
Some of you people on here have no idea what’s coming down the line.
I don’t remember all of those who like to mind their P’s & Q’s getting out and protesting when the men in Sligo were beheaded or when the children outside the Gaelscoil in Dublin were nearly stabbed up. Ye are the same types who stood by when our own in the North were being attacked, ye looked the other way for years always quick to describe Nationalists defending themselves as scum, curiously quiet about the British forces and their State directed Terrorist proxies.
It’s people on the fringe that started this movement using their phones and obscure social messaging platforms to spread the word as they were banned from the big Tech platforms such as Facebook and Twitter. American co’s that enjoy free speech in the USA, denying Irish people the right to speak freely in their own country. I spent years arguing with my own family and friends, all doing very well for themselves unaffected in their quiet little enclaves – was even accused of being ‘racist’ at our own family dinner table. Only now are they starting to make noises that the plantation centres are being located near where they live out in the quiet suburbs and even deep in the countryside well away from the big smoke.
In case you hadn’t noticed, the government are going full steam ahead with the plantation. By the time you get angry enough to raise your voice inappropriately, it’ll be too late to do anything. You and the others here chastising this fella are no different to the Varadkars, Coveneys and O’Gormans. Ye hate his ‘type’.
Ye aren’t going to take control of this movement and decide how things should proceed now that ye are getting worried yourselves. Write your emails, lobby your TD’s and all that jazz. If ye had been doing that 10-15 years ago and had been effective there wouldn’t be any need for the way this fella is carrying on. Like if he was to email his local FG/FF TD he’d get somewhere hahaha!
Go and tell that at the next party meeting
Verbal attack? Thought that was obvious enough.
Not acceptable to attack a young lad from a family of supers whose first job was defending the GPO on Easter Monday.
Wolfe Tone and Collins, clowns, extraordinaire…
#BENBURB
Sean he didn’t attack the young land in the shop. Whether the approach was right or wrong, he didn’t attack the kid, verbally or otherwise. Stop talking shoite.
Ah he did really. It was uncalled for.
Scumbag Response, pure and simple, feel bad for the critical thinkers forced to read your drivel.
So you disagree with me . That’s fine. No issue. Its just a comments section on a website. No need for the personal negativity mate.
If I had time to respond to every “drivel” comment I see on here I’d get nothing else done 🙂
Another person using ‘mate’.
Is this comment section swamped with Brits posing as Irish and trying to steer the narrative?
FFS. 🙂 Are you serious? We have to control our language to suit you? Is that it? Have a great, A Chara. 🙂
Just not familiar with Irish people using the word ‘mate’ – only one I know who ever used it had lived in London and worked in the building game for a long time. Though not many Irish I knew who worked on the buildings in England, even after many years, ever adopted it into their everyday lingo.
What part of the country is this in everyday use?
I’m from Dublin and have been saying it since I was 12 or 13. 25 years ago. I remember people started saying it. Not that it matters AT ALL.
Fair enough, just curious. Haven’t been to Dublin in ages so wouldn’t know. Remember ‘bud’ being used alot. Like ‘boy’ in Cork.
The bloke sounds like a moron.
Here’s something more constructive –
Let your TDs know that their political future depends entirely on their demanding the Opt-Out is maintained and protected, that they vote No to all legislation when this comes before the Oireachtas, and that we tell the E.U. Ireland will NOT be part of their scheme to take the migrants turning up in the mediterranean and borders of other countries (which would massively increase)
Post it on their social media and on RTE, Irish Times, etc.
They haven’t passed it yet, despite the impression the media have been trying to convey:
“The Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee TD, has today secured Cabinet approval to seek the necessary approvals from the Houses of the Oireachtas to opt-in to measures in the EU Asylum and Migration Pact.
Speaking after Cabinet, Minister McEntee said:Today I secured Government approval to seek the agreement of the Oireachtas to opt-in to measures which will benefit Ireland and benefit Europe”
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4cae7-minister-mcentee-secures-approval-from-government-to-opt-in-to-measures-of-the-eu-pact-on-migration-and-asylum/
#IrelandSaysNotoEUMigrantSharingPact
This is hanging on a knife-edge for the government.
SF has spoke against it (but not loud enough – get on to them !), as have others.
“Ireland currently has no European Union obligation to take in refugees as it has an opt-in or opt-out clause on individual proposals in the areas of freedom, security and justice through the EU Treaty of Lisbon.
When there is an EU legislative proposal in these areas, Ireland has three months to decide whether to opt-in or not. If it doesn’t opt-in, discussions go ahead, and any adopted legislation doesn’t apply in Ireland.”
https://dublin.europarl.europa.eu/en/meps
TDs and Senators – firstname(dot)surname @ oireachtas.ie
M.E.P.s – firstname(dot)surname @ europarl.europa.eu
This is extremely important – please take the time out for this, tell others, and share it where you can
Not personally affiliated, but thanks to the person on the other thread who shared this -https://www.irishpatriots.com/national_petition_stop_ireland_s_eu_migration_pact
70k signatures already
https://www.businesspost.ie/news/ireland-to-be-liable-for-more-asylum-seekers-than-most-other-eu-countries-under-new-pact/
Wrong link was given in the quoted E.U. statement – should have been this one
https://ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu/strategy-and-priorities/key-eu-policies-ireland/eu-migration-policy-and-ireland_en
Well done for keeping posting this and the links, Buddha. The more that see it and the more the word spreads the better
Thanks, hope it’s not bugging anyone (too much 😉 )Fair play to whoever set up the petition and shared it, too. Very good response for 48hrs
The media are either ignoring the migrant-sharing pact altogether, or ignoring that is designed to move people here directly (not ‘control’, ‘reduce’, etc.)
Which is incredible when migration is the single most important issue to the majority of voters in the country, and the subject of over 700 separate protests in 2023, 80% believe we have taken too many immigrants, etc.
The only thing to be done – as they are unwilling to their job honestly or at all – is to post the facts, the links, and so on, as comments under the social media posts of RTE, the Irish Times, and all the rest where more people will see it (and is their only real reach these days)
Michael Collins TD /Independent Ireland party have come out against it, too, I believe
Your not bugging me anyway . We have to repeat the truth as often as they repeat their lies .
I suppose the issue I have with this is that the left have got a free pass from RTE and the MSM when it comes to incidents like these. I remember one of the nurses in the Hallapanavar case saying she had got horrific abuse and threats from members of the public. I did not see any on the other side condemning this abuse. The same with the Let Women Speak protests and the marches for George Floyd during Covid lockdown and the ramrodding of refugees on local communities. I have said for a number of years that refusing to listen to peoples objections will lead inevitably to violence and outbursts of this kind and it has come to pass. This is just an example of this and can be both understandable if not excusable.
You know that the other side will use this video to delegitimise protest over our unsustainable immigration policies. I am not sure we should be doing their job for them.
I do, however, believe that this person was wrong to take out his frustrations on innocent bystanders. If the object of his ire was present it would have been more acceptable if not something I would do myself.
Very well said John! There’s a lot of right-wing lunatics who absolutely should not be defended, just because they may share with us some underlying principles of belief. Same with the “ism”s: we should call out racism etc when we see it. The woke brigade taking it too far doesn’t mean the “ism”s aren’t very real and deserve to be stamped out.
Rightwing lunatics = people getting angry and raising their voice when 150 Somalians get dumped into their community
Ferg has his own way of going on. Not perfect but very engaged and effective. Don’t punch right John, the left never make that mistake.
I saw the part where a Sinn Fein candidate called the cops on him and got him arrested which was wrong too. He should not be harrassing people at work either. That was wrong.
I fully agree. Incidentally – on “public order” generally – it must be nearly 20 years since that “Great White Hope” – Michael McDowell – piloted through the Houses “ASBO legislation” – i.e. legislation providing for the making of anti-social behaviour orders and a fine or prison for breaching them. There were enough safeguards built in so it’s highly unlikely the courts would have had a constitutional difficulty with the leg. My recollection is that only a few such orders were applied for – and the leg then “fell into abeyance”. The leg followed a similar development in the UK – a “high water mark” of the UK legislation’s operation (and I doubt the Irish courts would have entertained this sort of thing) was the making of an order prohibiting a woman from displaying a golliwog in her front window ! Early signs, I suppose, of the law being used to enforce “political correctness”. Now – in Britain of 2024 – the pendulum has swung so much in favour of Left Liberals, a police officer responded to an objection by a Jewish person to some Pro-Palestine marchers bearing a “swastika” that it “depended on the context” as to whether it was appropriate for him to intervene !!!!
Have to laugh at the tut-tutting about the ‘phone in your face’. Everywhere in Ireland now has CCTV, buses and trains have cameras, cars have dash cams, drones with cameras and journalists have no problem sticking a camera in people’s faces and publishing their photos.
Very fair points. He’s no Andy H, but could do with moderating his approach somewhat.
The old phone in their face while your shout at their face tactic, a reliable strategy for lowlifes everywhere