On Monday evening I ventured into RTÉ studios to take part in the programme Upfront with Katie Hannon. The question tweeted out was, is it time to take religion out of our schools? This is obviously a spectacularly stupid idea, which I was prepared to say. The debate on the night however, seemed to focus on the slightly narrower question of should sacramental preparation take place inside school.
The other members of the panel were Fine Fail Senator Shane Cassells who is also from Meath, although the country part, not the coast part where I now live. The opposition were Paddy Monahan who as per his twitter bio, was Social Democrats rep for Raheny/Donaghmede, campaigner for equality in education. Completing the line-up was Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Labour TD for DublinBay North and Education & Justice Spokesperson. Or to me, the most annoying man in Irish politics, and that’s from a crowded field. Safe to say he didn’t disappoint.
As an aside neither of the socialist men wore a tie. I mean, why would they? It’s not like the audience at home, in the studio, the panel guests or indeed the presenter deserve this kind of consideration. Don’t you know wearing a tie is conformist and the uniform of the capitalist? It was a sign of things to come.
I’m not one to hide my light under a bushel, so I’ll just say I’ve been in a fair few green rooms in my time. There was the one on ITV’s breakfast show where I spotted Jeremy Hunt MP (tall man), there was the Daily Politics one when Daily Politics still existed, and you see Nigel Farage float in and out. There was the time I had to remind myself to stop drinking so much wine with a former American Ambassador before Any Questions or I’d say something I’d regret (they feed you before that one). Finally, there were the two Question Time appearances where you are so nervous you have stop yourself from fainting. I’ve learned over the years not to do chit-chat with fellow guests. Chit-chat before the debate is bad for the prep. So I disposed of the chit-chat and just said a few prayers instead.
I had watched the previous week’s programme online and prepared myself for the fact that once the excellent presenter Katie Hannon gets through the audience questions and proceeds through the panel you could be sitting there for at least 20 minutes having not said a word. This is exactly what happened on Monday, so my direction to myself to stay calm went out the window having listened to an onslaught against the Irish education system, and in particular the Catholic aspect of it by the socialist men.
The children that didn’t want to do the sacraments were left out, they said. The socialists had all the buzz words for these poor children. They were ‘othered,’ segregated; the opt-out wasn’t working. The word apartheid may have been used, I can’t remember because at that stage the red mist was descending.
The teachers didn’t know what to do with the students who opted out of sacramental preparation. Em, read a book? Play monopoly? I mean you are a teacher, find something to do (I thought to myself although didn’t say.)
So finally, I’m asked to reply. Enough from the Angels of Doom, I said. To put this entire debate in context, I said the Irish education system was doing very well. Irish children came top of the PISA league tables for literacy in 2022. That was out of 37 OECD countries and 26 EU countries. They were also well above average for maths and science. So what’s the problem?
I pointed out that not to teach religion at all would be to plunge our children into ignorance. For instance, the PEW estimation in 2020 was that Christians made up 2.38 billion of the world population of 8 billion. As of 2023, the world’s core Jewish population (those identifying as Jews above all else) was estimated at 15.7 million and as of 2020 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.
I said given this our children should be familiar with the value system and ethics of the billions of people of faith around the world. Well, no one is saying they shouldn’t be taught religion said the presenter said. I didn’t get a chance to say that this was the question tweeted out.
I also reminded them that Christianity was the foundation of Western civilization and of Ireland. Finally, I pointed out that Catholic parents have a constitutional right under Article 42.2 to have their children educated inline with their values.
I should have said, but didn’t get the opportunity to say that this was in essence another assault on Catholicism. This was another all-out attack on those pesky, dim-witted families who cling to the old ways.
This was a ‘legacy of the past’ said Aodhán Ó Ríordáin. I wrote that phrase down for later. ‘Why do we always end up talking about religion,’ he asked.
Well this was too much for me. I pointed out that the reason we end up talking about religion is that people like him always make it about religion.
The Senator had already laid it out very clearly that there was still a huge appetite for the Catholic faith, faith formation and sacramental preparation from parents, which was all true. So I said this was coming from the governing elite, not parents.
This did not go down well with the most annoying man in Irish politics. ‘Oh for the love of God’, he said loudly, rudely and arrogantly. Then he did the thing where despite being given oceans of time himself, he proceeded to talk over me, interrupt me and be generally unpleasant. ‘Don’t you know I used to teach in a Deis school.’
Well, you don’t teach there now, was the point. I said, you are part of a political class now.
And on the issue of Catholicism in schools being a legacy of the past, there was a reason for that I said. That reason was the Penal laws prohibited Catholic families from educating their children in the Catholic faith. Those laws were from the old governing elite. Once those laws were finally got rid of, and independence established, Catholic families educated their children in the Catholic way. Now we have this attack from the current political elite.
So once all that settled down there was a conversation about mobile phones at the end of the programme where we all agreed ‘something must be done.’
After all that I was pretty worn out and made a swift exit. I still had to get home and the port tunnel was closed. This meant I spent at least 15 minutes of my time driving around Dublin Port with the satnav telling me to drive into the sea or make a u-turn or drive over the cones and into the closed tunnel. I got home the old-fashioned way eventually.