Presidential candidate Catherine Connolly today seemed hesitant to give her own personal view when asked: “How many genders do you think there are?” during a radio interview.
Connolly is known for her left-wing views, and in January 2024 asked then Minister for Social Protection, Heather Humphreys, and current presidential candidate, on “her plans to provide legal recognition for non-binary people; and if she will make a statement on the matter.”
During Friday’s interview on Tipp FM with Alison Hyland, Ms Connolly acknowledged the case of trans-identified Barbie Kardashian, who was released from prison in Limerick last week.
Ms Hyland said that the question of gender was “something we got in a lot from listeners when we were previewing that you were coming on today.”
“A lot of people are concerned about your gender ideology. So could I ask where you stand on that?” the presenter asked.
“I think there’s no doubt where I stand on that,” Connolly replied. “We need an inclusive society. We don’t need division; we don’t need language to divide. I worked as a clinical psychologist and my training was in England.
“I know the actual pain and suffering that someone goes through when they feel that they’re not in the right gender. I know that’s a painful, painful process and it’s something that I won’t comment on lightly. But I will say that prior to my time, and it was a good act, that the Government passed the Gender Recognition Act, and it’s law that someone can decide to change their gender and register accordingly, over 18 years of age.”
“How many genders do you think there are, in your view?” the presenter asked Connolly. “I think it’s up to people to decide that, but we’re talking about a tiny proportion of the population,” the Independent said.
“But in your view?” she was pressed. “In my view, we’re talking about a tiny proportion of the population, and we passed a Gender Recognition Act to allow them to identify which gender. That’s law, and there’s a process in place. And then there’s a particular process in place for 16 to 18-year-olds where they need two medical reports,” replied Connolly.
“That whole act was reviewed, and I think that’s the way to do things in a democracy. It was reviewed; recommendations were made, and I think we have an obligation to read that report and see where we’re going with it; see what are the concerns of people, see what the inadequacies are, and look at it in a reasoned way.
“But at the end of the day, Alison, we’re talking about an inclusive society. We’re talking about a small number of people. We’ve been through so many divisive campaigns, haven’t we, over the years? This is a Republic in name at least, and surely we’re bigger than division, and surely we can have a tolerant society where everyone feels included, and feels safe regardless of where they come from, regardless of a decision they make in relation to their gender. At the end of the day, it’s a tiny group of people.”
Hyland then asked again: “But can I push you on how many genders though, do you think there are?”
“I think that’s up to the person deciding, and so there is a recognition – male and female – and there is a recognition by one or the other. Some people feel they don’t want to be restricted within that, and that’s up to them. I can only go back to my experience as a psychologist and how difficult it is, how difficult it is for all of us, to come to terms with ourselves.
“If I use my own journey in life, growing up as a girl or a woman, we were filled with shame. Anybody from my background and my age, roughly, shame was a predominant feeling in our lives growing up, and it’s something that I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It’s taken me a long time in life to accept myself and I’ll leave it to other people to make that journey as they see fit.”
Connolly was then asked, “What is a woman to you, then?”
“I’m a woman, and I’m proud of it. It’s taken me a long time to accept […]” the candidate for the presidency said.
“So is it a biological woman, someone who is born a woman?” Connolly was probed. “There’s a small group of people who wish to identify in a different manner than I do. I accept that completely; I think that’s not a big challenge to a democracy, to a healthy society, and that’s all I can say really,” she told Tipp FM.
Connolly was then asked about the UK Supreme Court’s ruling on gender from April, affirming that gender is biological. She said she had left the judgement aside to “read and reflect on.”
“I will go back and look at that,” she said. “We’re getting into a yes or no situation which is not helpful in a sense for a small amount of people who wish to identify in a particular way. That’s the least we can do in a compassionate society, in a tolerant society. We need to move away from imposing beliefs on people and imposing something that somebody is not comfortable with. This is a presidential election. The legislation has been in the Dail since 2015.”
Questioned on whether she thought the Gender Recognition Act had been a success ten years on, Connolly said that different recommendations had emerged, which “have to be looked at, have to be studied.”
BARBIE KARDASHIAN
Pressed on an Aontú Bill to remove prisons from the scope of the Act, Connolly admitted that there were “challenges” – referring specifically to the case of Barbie Kardashian.
In August 2020, Kardashian – a violent biologically male sex offender with a penis – was granted a Gender Recognition Certificate by now presidential candidate Humphreys’ Department.
As a result, Kardashian was placed in Limerick Women’s Prison among female inmates, where he went on to threaten to torture, sexually abuse and mutilate female inmates and guards.
Kardashian, who remains unrepentant of his crimes, was just released from prison this week.
“We saw the very recent case,” Connolly said, “The name escapes me.”
“Barbie Kardashian,” Hyland replied. “Where a very violent man was put into a women’s prison.”
“That’s right,” Connolly said. “That was a safety and security issue, a very serious safety and security issue, which I think the prison service then dealt with. But absolutely.”
“Is that not the issue with the Gender Recognition Act? That it allows someone like that to enter a women’s prison?” the Tipp FM presenter asked.
“Again, I’m reluctant to comment on a specific case. But certainly there were serious threats made. It was a security issue, and that has to be dealt with each time, absolutely.”
“I’m sure you’d agree that women have the right to feel safe, be it in a changing room, or in sports?” the Tipp FM presenter probed.
“I think there are challenges that need to be discussed, absolutely,” said Connolly. She said that whether she agreed or disagreed personally, “if you have somebody who wants to participate in female sports, and they’re at an advantage because of their strength and their bulk, that’s something that the sports have to look at, and society has to look at, in a reasoned way.”
She was then pushed again for an answer on “What is a woman to you?” Connolly sighed, before saying again that she has “struggled all my life” to accept herself. She insisted that she would not feel “threatened by someone who chooses a different gender.”
“But if other women feel they are being forced to affirm a delusion by someone, is that fair either?” Hyland asked. Connolly said that it was “kind of a speculative question,” adding: “People have to feel safe. People coming into our country have to feel safe.”
The exchange came after Connolly’s rival for the presidency, Fine Gael’s Heather Humphreys, told Gript at the weekend that the Gender Recognition Act may have to be looked at.
“In my book, a woman is a female adult, and a man is a male adult – that’s my belief,” she told Ben Scallan during a presser on Sunday.
“But we know the world is not black and white, and there are complexities there. And obviously it’s a difficult situation.”
Asked what these complexities are precisely, she simply replied: “Look, it’s not black and white, and there’s many issues.
“That legislation [the Gender Recognition Act 2015] was actually not passed by me, it was passed by a previous Minister. And the legislation is in place. And maybe it does need to be looked at.”