Minister Catherine Martin has tonight faced questions from TDs and Senators regarding her oversight of RTÉ’s expenditure of public funds, governance issues and plans for support and funding for public service media.
The meeting in Leinster House heard claims from TD Mattie mcGrath that the Media Minister had “failed” to ask the right questions of the chair of the RTE board. Deputy McGrath described the situation within the national broadcaster as “a mess, an unholy mess.”
“The sooner the fraud squad are brought in, the better,” he told the grilling, which ran on for several hours.
The committee meeting followed the resignation of RTE Board Chair Siun Ni Raghallaigh last week, in the wake of shock comments made by the Media Minister of Prime Time. In a statement, Ms Ni Raghallaigh said she believed her position was no longer tenable as she “no longer has the confidence of the Minister.”
During last Thursday’s episode of Prime Time, Minister Catherine Martin claimed that Ms Ni Raghallaigh “misinformed” her twice about the Board having no role in the sign-off of Former Chief Financial Officer Richard Collins’ exit package. It was, however, confirmed to Department officials on Thursday morning that the Renumeration Committee, chaired by Ms Ni Raghallaigh, had approved the package.
Over the course of the programme, Minister Martin failed on three occasions to express confidence in the Chairwoman, with the former Chair resigning hours later.
“I applied for the role of Chair of RTÉ because I believe strongly in the importance of public service media,” the statement read.
“Since taking up the role of Chair of the RTÉ Board in December 2022, I have worked hard with my Board colleagues, and the Leadership Team. Our priority at all times has been on reforming the organisation, in order to secure its future.
“However, it is abundantly clear from statements today, and in particular last night’s Primetime broadcast, that I no longer have the confidence of the Minister in my role as Chair of the Board of RTÉ and that, as such, my position is no longer tenable.”
Tonight, the Committee heard that Ms Martin has confidence in Kevin Bakhurst, despite him being aware that the information provided to the Minister in relation to whether the board had oversight of the former chief financial officer Richard Collins’s exit package was not accurate.
She also claimed that she did not expect to be asked if she still had confidence in Siún Ní Raghallaigh during the Prime Time interview, and that she did everything she could not to say she had no confidence in the former Chair. However, Deputy McGrath accused the Minister of “throwing” Ms Ni Raghallaigh “under the bus,” claiming that the Minister had briefed RTE that she was in fact comfortable with such a question.
Regarding the broader situation at RTE, the Tipperary TD told the Minister, “I believe that the pack, or yourself, weren’t equipped to deal with this. It should have been the fraud squad.”
“There has been money put aside to deal with revenue,” he added. “A sizable sum of money in the region of 20 million to investigate possible irregularities.”
The TD further claimed that “nobody else, no other company in the country has had that opportunity afforded to them,” going on to ask, “So why is it afforded to RTE?”
Addressing Deputy McGrath, Minister Martin responded: “Can I just say that you said I don’t ask direct questions. I actually couldn’t have been more direct than I was last week in asking the chair on numerous occasions in relation to the role of the chair in improving those packages, and the role of any role whatsoever of the board.
“Under the Broadcasting Act, my direct relationship with RTE is with the chair of the Board and there is an obligation under the code of practice for governance of State bodies and it refers to areas where indeed there is an obligation on the chairperson to keep the minister informed, and advising the Minister, and making sure that I’m kept advised of all matters.”
Deputy Mattie McGrath then asked the Minister at what point she lost confidence in the former chair of the RTE board, Siún Ní Raghallaigh. She responded, stating: “I was hoping to have the conversation on the Friday morning with her. But obviously, you know, I felt i could not rely on accurate information having pressed the issue on Monday, and again on numerous occasions on the Wednesday in relation to whether she had a role whatsoever.”
Deputy McGrath pressed the Minister on whether her public dismissal of Ms Ní Raghallaigh on RTE was “appropriate.” Minister Martin insisted that the manner of the dismissal was “not intentional whatsoever,” insisting: “I wanted to meet her. I wanted to outline what had arisen that day.”
She claimed the appearance on PrimeTime was “the first opportunity to correct the record, where I had said publicly on foot of the information supplied to me by the Chair,” as she referenced media reports that weekend.
“I felt compelled when asked to share the information that I had, rather than conceal it.”
Deputy McGrath interrupted stating, “But it was public television. You could have waited. You could have cancelled the programme […] You could have easily pulled out. We know now that you briefed the presenter of the research team that you were prepared to answer this question.”
“So it’s the leading question, you got to dismiss or publicly throw her under the bus. Minister, going forward, how can you give confidence here, or what confidence can you give us, or indeed the public, who I think they’ve switched off from watching this anyway, because they are just patently disgusted with it, as I am disgusted with much of the content in RTE.”
Deputy McGrath said that while he had sympathy for the “vast majority of employees at RTE,”he questioned what he declined as a “cabal” at the broadcaster.
“I reiterate that I have sympathy for the vast majority of employees in RTE, but the cabal at the top, what confidence can you give me [and this committee] that you’re going to be able to deal with this cabal?” he asked.
“You have failed miserably since last July to do it,” he said.
“That’s what it is now – a cabal – and I think Mr Bankhurt’s position is untenable as well.”
“I find it hard to think that you could say he sat there and didn’t advise or nudge Ms Ní Raghallaigh, and say,‘Look, you’re misinforming the Minister there.’ And you still have confidence in him?”
“Where is this leading, and what confidence can you give us that you’re going to be able to deal with this cabal?”
Minister Martin insisted she had confidence that “we can find a path forward,” adding she had confidence in the reforms taking place.
“I do not think that’s fair,” she told McGrath, insisting, “I have absolute confidence in the chair.”
She said that more importantly, she had confidence in the “absolute value” of public service broadcasting.
Deputy McGrath pressed the Minister on why dedicated officials had not been appointed to “watch the public purse,” asking, “Where are they now? Where is your duty there? Duty of care to the State, and to taxpayers money?”
“Your ability here has to be questioned,” he said, “And your department’s.”
“How have you let this fester and sore to be this appalling vista. What a mess. And we’ll continue here with meetings, and meetings, and more meetings. Round the house and mind the dresser, and don’t answer any questions. The sooner that the fraud squad are brought in, the better.
“Why is RTE being protected by you as a MInister and the government?” he asked, questioning why the national broadcaster had not had “to face up to their tax liabilities, to be honest with their employees who want to earn money for their families?”
“How is that allowed to continue? [How is] this charade allowed to carry on?”
“As I said the last day, it’s like, mind the chickens in the hen house and keep the door closed. Don’t let in the fox. You don’t want to see any fox. You want to carry on your merry go round with the media, public service broadcasting holding to the government.”
Deputy McGrath said that “anyone with an alternative view” was being “forgotten about” by the broadcaster, adding, “it’s not fair or right.”
“You’re not able to control it, and you’ve no intention of trying to control it because it suits the government narrative to let this carry on,” the Deputy said.
In response, Minister Martin claimed that part of the problem was successive governments “not grasping the nettle of putting RTE on a sustainable footing.”
She insisted that the issue was not just about RTE, but was about the wider broadcasting and print sector.
“That’s why we have to move quickly and make a decision,” she said. “And the key to that is the expert advisory committee reports.”
“Jobs for the boys,” McGrath responded. “It’s the same big companies that give advice,” he claimed, adding, “They’re tainted. And they’re hired again. A blind person could teach you what’s going on […] cabal.”
“You’re the Minister. You make decisions and let them deal with the fallout,” he retorted, adding, “I rest my case.”