Social Democrats TD Cian O’Callaghan has called on the State to seize assets belonging to the Catholic Church in Ireland as a means of paying for redress for survivors of mother and baby homes.
The Dublin Bay North TD, speaking on Wednesday, asked the Taoiseach: “Why are these orders not being raided by the Gardaí? Why are their assets not seized?”
“When will the State finally flex some legal muscle when it comes to these religious orders?” Deputy O’Callaghan asked, saying it was “unbelievable that the approach of successive Governments to these orders, which operated as criminal networks, is to roll over.”
He was speaking as Government negotiator Sheila Nunan submitted a final report on Mother and Baby Homes redress with conclusions from talks with seven Catholic bodies and the Church of Ireland.
“What will it take for the State to finally act and go after these orders with more than a begging bowl?” Deputy O’Callaghan asked during Leaders’ Questions.
“Going cap in hand to religious orders was not a successful strategy. This is hardly surprising in view of the fact that we know these orders would much prefer to pay their armies of lawyers than the women and children they tortured and abused. These orders own assets worth hundreds of millions.”
In response, Taoiseach Micheál told the Social Democrats politician that “we cannot simply go in and raid the premises.”
“I am sure the Deputy appreciates there have to be processes regarding the legality of whatever the Government does. Suffice to say that the Government did not wait around for religious orders,” Mr Martin said, adding: “The Government has not gone cap in hand to anyone.”
The Taoiseach said that it was his view that the Government had taken its “own decisions” in respect of the redress scheme for those in mother and baby homes, adding that it is “quite a substantial scheme,” which will total up to €800 or more.
However, he said that the Government will consider “options” it can take against religious orders that are “within the law.”
“I accept not everyone felt that was enough, but it was a first substantive response by the State in respect of mother and baby homes. There have been other responses in respect of industrial schools and Magdalen laundries which have been extensive. Each of these involved different dimensions,” the Fianna Fáil leader said.
“I am sure the Deputy appreciates there have to be processes regarding the legality of whatever the Government does. Suffice to say that the Government did not wait around for religious orders,” Mr Martin said.
But Deputy O’Callaghan insisted that the State should “vigorously pursue” religious orders, responding: “I have not been asking for the Government to wait around in the context of a redress scheme; I am asking what it is going to do when it comes to going after these religious orders. This has been going on for years. We are talking about religious orders with assets worth hundreds of millions of euro, partly financed off the back of incarceration, forced labour, vaccine trials and forced adoptions. They have the resources to pay.
“Why is the State not vigorously pursuing these orders? Compare this with how the State treats its own citizens. When ordinary people attempt to vindicate their rights in the courts, the State fights them every step of the way. Why is the State failing to flex its legal muscle when pursuing these orders? What is the Government going to do to make these orders pay?”
In response, the Taoiseach said it was the Government’s view that religious orders have a “collective and moral responsibility” to respond to Ireland’s legacy in relation to mother and baby institutions.
“We will assess that report and then consider what options we can take – within the law, obviously – in terms of persuading religious orders in respect of the mother and baby institutions,” Mr Martin said.
“As I said earlier, it is a matter on which we will have to take advice in terms of the precise and specific issues that pertain to mother and baby homes, which will be different to those that applied to the industrial schools, for example, where the State was directly involved in terms of inspectorial reports and inspections of those schools. It was the State that put many young people into industrial schools, unlike mother and baby homes. The State was not directly involved in the latter. Nonetheless, we will see what is the most effective way to get a contribution from the religious orders and what options are available.”